I have been in touch with an IBO who is in WWDB. Apparently dream building is a big part of WWDB. While it is good to have goals and dreams, I find it somewhat interesting to know that only a select few people in WWDB ever reached these goals and dreams because of their involvement with WWDB and Amway. In fact, despite claims by our upline that WWDB was the "best" and more profitable LOS, there is little or no evidence that this is true. I have not seen many new diamonds emerge from WWDB, but on the contrary, I have seen evidence of WWDB diamonds having their homes foreclosed and/or involvement with bankruptucy. Somme WWDB leaders who taught that WWDB saves marriages got divorced. Ain't that a kick in the shin?
In my opinion, this dream building approach is simply a tactic to get a prospect interested in the opportunity and then the upline will tell the prospect that the way to achieve these dreams is to be dedicated to the system (WWDB). This is the same system that has few new diamonds and diamonds in apparent financial difficulty. These dreams may also help to retain some IBOs in the system as it would seem that quitting Amway and WWDB means these dreams are no longer attainable.
If you are an information seeker or a struggling IBO, a question you may want to consider is whether your dedication to Amway and WWDB progressing you towards these stated dream or if you are simply channeling your money into products and training materials which helps achieve other people's dreams?
Below is an excerpt from a WWDB IBO about dreambuilding:
So that’s why we have pictures and words of affirmation around our house. When you come into our condo you’ll see words like “Overcome”, “do the opposite of the masses”, “The best is yet to come”, “Play Injured”, “Are you living a dream, or just living your life”, “Break through the wall of fear”, “We' re all in” and more. We believe these things motivate us and give us a dream. Then you’ll see stuff on our fridge like pictures of Kelowna where we want to live, Wineries, because we love wine, in my office you’ll see a picture of a Breitling Chronomat B01 watch because that’s the watch I want, you’ll see magazines with inspirational things in them that relate to us. It’s these things that keep our dreams alive.
It’s so important to do this whether you are building this business or not. This what i’m writing about is part of the 95% of what we do with World Wide Dreambuilders. The 5%, the Amway Global portion is the vehicle for the 95%. You need a dream, goals and passion so that you have something to work towards.
We’ve got BIG dreams, and so should you!
Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Tuesday, November 8, 2011
WWDB IBOs Exaggerate? Or Lie?
Read this blogpost by a WWDB IBO. I can see the flaw in what is being said. Can you?
http://expeditionoftruths.com/2010/06/22/cost-of-business/
So I was thinking this past weekend, as we were booking our flights to Portland for this year’s Family Reunion, the costs to run our business. Now being a sceptical person I keep records for every single expense related to our business and keep a running total to make sure that we are actually making money over what we spend to run our business. I do not include the products we buy because 95% of the products we buy are products that we already bought before. Examples, Multi-Vitamin, Protein Bars, Granola Bars, Water, Energy Drinks, Cleaning products, etc.. That’s all stuff we bought and as a business owner you shop from your own store.
So going back to our hard business costs such as our voicemail system, our digital audio files, books, any business related marketing tools, conferences that we attend, local functions that we go to… ALL of that are for the most parts the cost of doing business. I may break it down at the end of the year but probably not because our costs of doing business will differ from other people’s because not everyone uses all the tools and people build different business’s. However the best thing about all of that, 100% tax write offs. We did our taxes last year and were able to write off every thing that was related to our business. That even includes any samples we gave and KM’s we drove to any meetings that we had. We basically got a cheque back from the government and that cheque covered ALL our costs. So those who say “the tools are a scam”, well I don’t know what to tell you but as a cost of business they were covered by my cheque back from the government.
However having said all of that what business do you know doesn’t cost money to run? Last time I checked it costs traditional business’s like McDonalds, Shoppers Drug Mart, Banana Republic, Gap, etc… TEN of THOUSANDS of dollars a month to operate. They also have employees to manage and pay, lease payments for a building, and a whole whack of other expenses to pay out. We have roughly a FEW thousand dollars to run and 1000% less headache to worry about. Based on that it just makes sense and honestly how can you argue that. I’m sure you’ll try, however this is my own experience and what we are doing. What others do or claim to have done may or may not be what was recommended or advised and if you read it, take it with a grain of salt.
So to wrap it up, does this business cost money to run? Absolutely! Do you get to write it off on taxes? YES. I did it, I got the cheque! Next year when I file, I’ll post the cheque as proof for the seeing is believing folk out there. All business’s cost money to run, just depends on what kind of business your in
Shaun's comment and clarification:
"They didn’t give me a cheque specifically for my business related materials. I get to deduct my business related expenses against my taxable income like you said. I did our regular job taxes first and after that I wasn’t really getting a refund. However after I started to add in all our business related expenses that’s where our refund came which pretty much covered our business expenses for the 7 months we were in business last year"
http://expeditionoftruths.com/2010/06/22/cost-of-business/
So I was thinking this past weekend, as we were booking our flights to Portland for this year’s Family Reunion, the costs to run our business. Now being a sceptical person I keep records for every single expense related to our business and keep a running total to make sure that we are actually making money over what we spend to run our business. I do not include the products we buy because 95% of the products we buy are products that we already bought before. Examples, Multi-Vitamin, Protein Bars, Granola Bars, Water, Energy Drinks, Cleaning products, etc.. That’s all stuff we bought and as a business owner you shop from your own store.
So going back to our hard business costs such as our voicemail system, our digital audio files, books, any business related marketing tools, conferences that we attend, local functions that we go to… ALL of that are for the most parts the cost of doing business. I may break it down at the end of the year but probably not because our costs of doing business will differ from other people’s because not everyone uses all the tools and people build different business’s. However the best thing about all of that, 100% tax write offs. We did our taxes last year and were able to write off every thing that was related to our business. That even includes any samples we gave and KM’s we drove to any meetings that we had. We basically got a cheque back from the government and that cheque covered ALL our costs. So those who say “the tools are a scam”, well I don’t know what to tell you but as a cost of business they were covered by my cheque back from the government.
However having said all of that what business do you know doesn’t cost money to run? Last time I checked it costs traditional business’s like McDonalds, Shoppers Drug Mart, Banana Republic, Gap, etc… TEN of THOUSANDS of dollars a month to operate. They also have employees to manage and pay, lease payments for a building, and a whole whack of other expenses to pay out. We have roughly a FEW thousand dollars to run and 1000% less headache to worry about. Based on that it just makes sense and honestly how can you argue that. I’m sure you’ll try, however this is my own experience and what we are doing. What others do or claim to have done may or may not be what was recommended or advised and if you read it, take it with a grain of salt.
So to wrap it up, does this business cost money to run? Absolutely! Do you get to write it off on taxes? YES. I did it, I got the cheque! Next year when I file, I’ll post the cheque as proof for the seeing is believing folk out there. All business’s cost money to run, just depends on what kind of business your in
Shaun's comment and clarification:
"They didn’t give me a cheque specifically for my business related materials. I get to deduct my business related expenses against my taxable income like you said. I did our regular job taxes first and after that I wasn’t really getting a refund. However after I started to add in all our business related expenses that’s where our refund came which pretty much covered our business expenses for the 7 months we were in business last year"
Monday, November 7, 2011
Make $80,000 In WWDB/Amway?
An email I received from a WWDB IBO:
Hey, thanks for the reply, I would be happy to tell you what i do, and who i work for.
I am what you call an IBO or independent business owner, its a franchise you can buy in for only 60.00 dollars. Basically the key to making money and plenty of it is to recruit other people to sign up and start their own business. With starting your own business you sell Amway's products, and they have everything, so its not hard for anybody to find something they like, also Amway has 30 partner companies such as: Circuit City, PacSun, Nascar etc.
Sure, to start your own business you sign up with Amway.com. WWDB or World Wide Group is a company that provides you your website plus learning and training materials to make sure you become successful in the business. They pretty much hold your hand until you become successful. As far as what i have accomplished in owning my own business i have only had my business for 1 month now and am very happy with it. My mentor or upline, the guy that sponsored me into getting my own business started is my girlfriends father, and he is very successful in the business, which is why i joined, if i told you how much he made a year you wouldnt believe me.
The plan that World Wide group puts you on is mapped out to make you earn 80,000 dollars your first year, which means you would become a platinum member, it goes all the way up to diamond members which make in the six figure incomes
World Wide is not free, but it pays for itself because you will see customers sign up to your website to buy products, you will sell to your family, friends etc., plus if your like me you will try to sign as many people up in your first month as you can, so no, world wide isnt free, but it will pay for itself.
Yeah I’m still in it, i probably work with it about 8-10 hours a week. No, I’m not on pace to make $80,000 in a year, but it’s my own fault, I did not work hard enough. One good thing though, I know I am a better person and getting a check every month helps, even if it’s a small one.
Hey, thanks for the reply, I would be happy to tell you what i do, and who i work for.
I am what you call an IBO or independent business owner, its a franchise you can buy in for only 60.00 dollars. Basically the key to making money and plenty of it is to recruit other people to sign up and start their own business. With starting your own business you sell Amway's products, and they have everything, so its not hard for anybody to find something they like, also Amway has 30 partner companies such as: Circuit City, PacSun, Nascar etc.
Sure, to start your own business you sign up with Amway.com. WWDB or World Wide Group is a company that provides you your website plus learning and training materials to make sure you become successful in the business. They pretty much hold your hand until you become successful. As far as what i have accomplished in owning my own business i have only had my business for 1 month now and am very happy with it. My mentor or upline, the guy that sponsored me into getting my own business started is my girlfriends father, and he is very successful in the business, which is why i joined, if i told you how much he made a year you wouldnt believe me.
The plan that World Wide group puts you on is mapped out to make you earn 80,000 dollars your first year, which means you would become a platinum member, it goes all the way up to diamond members which make in the six figure incomes
World Wide is not free, but it pays for itself because you will see customers sign up to your website to buy products, you will sell to your family, friends etc., plus if your like me you will try to sign as many people up in your first month as you can, so no, world wide isnt free, but it will pay for itself.
Yeah I’m still in it, i probably work with it about 8-10 hours a week. No, I’m not on pace to make $80,000 in a year, but it’s my own fault, I did not work hard enough. One good thing though, I know I am a better person and getting a check every month helps, even if it’s a small one.
Thursday, October 6, 2011
WWDB - Tapes Are Vital To Your Success!
But worthless in the real world?
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rch/zip/2626626721.html
Free Amway WWDB tapes (Richmond)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2011-10-01, 1:12AM PDT
Reply to: sale-ndvzs-2626626721@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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Lots and lots of old Amway WWDB cassette tapes from 10+ years ago. If you want them, you can have them. You probably can't buy most of these seminars anymore.
I'll even throw in some cassette storage cases if you want them.
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rch/zip/2626626721.html
Free Amway WWDB tapes (Richmond)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2011-10-01, 1:12AM PDT
Reply to: sale-ndvzs-2626626721@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lots and lots of old Amway WWDB cassette tapes from 10+ years ago. If you want them, you can have them. You probably can't buy most of these seminars anymore.
I'll even throw in some cassette storage cases if you want them.
Monday, August 29, 2011
Your Brain On WWDB?
Comment by a WWDB IBO:
WWDB IBO says:
August 26, 2011 at 12:03 pm
It’s interesting to see what those “less informed” really know about the business and how WWDB is not the same as some organizations that do make more money off the system than they do from the product side of the business. After twelve years in the business, I know for a fact that all the money I’ve ever made in that period of time (6 years between Platinum & Ruby averaging $70k/yr) that 90% of my money came from Amway. So, with 10% being from WWDB, which is available to anyone who build the same size business, the “tool bonus” is marginal and basically covers gas and other expenses of simply building the biz.
There is no doubt that books, CDs, functions are all about personal development and shouldn’t be treated any different than going to school. Do people get on line and bitch about the cost of book, tuition and how much the professors are getting paid? Give me a break! At least if you build the business correctly, you will make money and you get the legal tax write-offs of a business. I can easily say that I now make 5 times the income today than I used to make prior to the business and give a majority of the credit to the willingness to learn, develop and change my way of thinking, along with now having a much better self image.
So, does college guarantee you financial success? Does everyone who goes to college make $100k when getting out? Do people bash colleges for having $100k+ in school loans and only make $25k a year at their jobs? All of these questions have to do with the person and what they are willing to do to succeed, whether it be a job or ANY type of business. There are winners and whiners. Steve Jobs makes a bunch of money from Apple, but how many Apple employees complain about how much he makes, how much it costs them to drive to work, the time they put in, any new training they must do, etc., etc.
I’ve been to the houses of many Diamonds and they do have nice places and things. Bottom line is that they are still people and they do have a life outside of what they do on stage. How many people do you know are exactly the same at work as they are at the bar on Friday night? All any of us can try to do is be a good person, try to make a positive impact (if you desire to, which is what most leaders in WWDB have done no matter what is going on in their personal life) and to keep working to become a better person and prosper for the sake of your family.
They never said that the business is Eutopia, but it has more positive aspects than negative and you can make more money and become a better person….the only problem is that it’s a matter of choice. Winners are too busy living life and making things happen. Whiners like to get online and complain about things without any time or energy going toward something productive. Just my 2 cents. I wish everyone the best and that you get what you want in life.
WWDB IBO says:
August 26, 2011 at 12:03 pm
It’s interesting to see what those “less informed” really know about the business and how WWDB is not the same as some organizations that do make more money off the system than they do from the product side of the business. After twelve years in the business, I know for a fact that all the money I’ve ever made in that period of time (6 years between Platinum & Ruby averaging $70k/yr) that 90% of my money came from Amway. So, with 10% being from WWDB, which is available to anyone who build the same size business, the “tool bonus” is marginal and basically covers gas and other expenses of simply building the biz.
There is no doubt that books, CDs, functions are all about personal development and shouldn’t be treated any different than going to school. Do people get on line and bitch about the cost of book, tuition and how much the professors are getting paid? Give me a break! At least if you build the business correctly, you will make money and you get the legal tax write-offs of a business. I can easily say that I now make 5 times the income today than I used to make prior to the business and give a majority of the credit to the willingness to learn, develop and change my way of thinking, along with now having a much better self image.
So, does college guarantee you financial success? Does everyone who goes to college make $100k when getting out? Do people bash colleges for having $100k+ in school loans and only make $25k a year at their jobs? All of these questions have to do with the person and what they are willing to do to succeed, whether it be a job or ANY type of business. There are winners and whiners. Steve Jobs makes a bunch of money from Apple, but how many Apple employees complain about how much he makes, how much it costs them to drive to work, the time they put in, any new training they must do, etc., etc.
I’ve been to the houses of many Diamonds and they do have nice places and things. Bottom line is that they are still people and they do have a life outside of what they do on stage. How many people do you know are exactly the same at work as they are at the bar on Friday night? All any of us can try to do is be a good person, try to make a positive impact (if you desire to, which is what most leaders in WWDB have done no matter what is going on in their personal life) and to keep working to become a better person and prosper for the sake of your family.
They never said that the business is Eutopia, but it has more positive aspects than negative and you can make more money and become a better person….the only problem is that it’s a matter of choice. Winners are too busy living life and making things happen. Whiners like to get online and complain about things without any time or energy going toward something productive. Just my 2 cents. I wish everyone the best and that you get what you want in life.
Monday, August 15, 2011
More WWDB Commentary?
Kevin says:
July 10, 2010 at 11:19 pm
I was in worldwide some years ago. These mentors said WWDB was the most profitable and fastest growing line in all of Amway. Either they were lying or dead wrong. Looking back, here’s some of the junk I was told. Buy from yourself at full retail and the “profit” will pay for your functions. In reality, your own bank account is paying for the functions. I heard Greg Duncan talk about how stupid people were if they took out loans because the banks made their living off stupid people. Diamonds pay cash for everything we were told. That makes Greg a liar or at best, a hypocrite. We were also led to believe that Greg was a bazillionaire. Sure a million bucks a year is great, but for a triple dipple ripple diamond, somehow it’s not what the audience thought. I remember Greg talking about how because of what he’s done, his future generations of family won’t have to work. His kids and sons/daughters in law will just work for him and he’ll pay them at least twice of their best job offer. I can’t say I feel that sorry for him after our group was told that Greg has to “dumb down” his speeches so the audience can understand his points.
You can fool some people all the time, but you cannot fool alll the people all the time. Greg has been exposed as a fraud. He is not the financial genious he was made out to be. I hope all of his group finds out about this.
July 10, 2010 at 11:19 pm
I was in worldwide some years ago. These mentors said WWDB was the most profitable and fastest growing line in all of Amway. Either they were lying or dead wrong. Looking back, here’s some of the junk I was told. Buy from yourself at full retail and the “profit” will pay for your functions. In reality, your own bank account is paying for the functions. I heard Greg Duncan talk about how stupid people were if they took out loans because the banks made their living off stupid people. Diamonds pay cash for everything we were told. That makes Greg a liar or at best, a hypocrite. We were also led to believe that Greg was a bazillionaire. Sure a million bucks a year is great, but for a triple dipple ripple diamond, somehow it’s not what the audience thought. I remember Greg talking about how because of what he’s done, his future generations of family won’t have to work. His kids and sons/daughters in law will just work for him and he’ll pay them at least twice of their best job offer. I can’t say I feel that sorry for him after our group was told that Greg has to “dumb down” his speeches so the audience can understand his points.
You can fool some people all the time, but you cannot fool alll the people all the time. Greg has been exposed as a fraud. He is not the financial genious he was made out to be. I hope all of his group finds out about this.
Monday, July 18, 2011
11 Years In WWDB?
A Recent blog comment:
SUSAN says:
April 2, 2011 at 8:39 am
I was in WORLD WIDE FOR 11 YEARS I went to all functions bought over 4000 in tapes 1500 in books spent 3500 on meetings and made about 900 to 1220 bucks in 11 years ……My up-line was a complete jerk who pried into my personal life told me how I should think speak eat and ALWAYS I REPEAT ALWAYS MADE ME FEEL HORRIBLE IF I WAS LATE OR COULD NOT GET OFF WORK FOR A MEETING….He would scream at me he was never a mentor just a tormentor!! I sponsored about 70 to 80 people they all quit and Now I have been inactive for 4 years …. So sad cause I believe if I had the right up-line I really could have made it in WORLD WIDE …..HIS NAME WAS MIKE FREIDMAN ….I believe he has since quit the business about a year ago ….He was a horrible person ….World Wide taught me a lot of great stuff like how to believe in my self and be supper positive ….Of which I am grateful for …..But my experience has left me so jaded I could never get back in this business again ….What bothered me the most was when I left I even contacted Ron Purer to return my tools ((OVER 5000.00 )) cause I no longer had a use for them ….He simply said no ….So I threw them in the trash and moved on with my life……
SUSAN says:
April 2, 2011 at 8:39 am
I was in WORLD WIDE FOR 11 YEARS I went to all functions bought over 4000 in tapes 1500 in books spent 3500 on meetings and made about 900 to 1220 bucks in 11 years ……My up-line was a complete jerk who pried into my personal life told me how I should think speak eat and ALWAYS I REPEAT ALWAYS MADE ME FEEL HORRIBLE IF I WAS LATE OR COULD NOT GET OFF WORK FOR A MEETING….He would scream at me he was never a mentor just a tormentor!! I sponsored about 70 to 80 people they all quit and Now I have been inactive for 4 years …. So sad cause I believe if I had the right up-line I really could have made it in WORLD WIDE …..HIS NAME WAS MIKE FREIDMAN ….I believe he has since quit the business about a year ago ….He was a horrible person ….World Wide taught me a lot of great stuff like how to believe in my self and be supper positive ….Of which I am grateful for …..But my experience has left me so jaded I could never get back in this business again ….What bothered me the most was when I left I even contacted Ron Purer to return my tools ((OVER 5000.00 )) cause I no longer had a use for them ….He simply said no ….So I threw them in the trash and moved on with my life……
Monday, June 27, 2011
Recycled Amway Diamonds?
Comment by an anonymous commentator on another blog:
Anonymous said...
Doesn't WWDB have anything better to do than recycle Diamonds that qualified in the last century, hasn't anyone qualified diamond in WWDB since 1994? To top it off you'll get to hear Greg and Laurie Duncan speak, maybe they'll talk about how they managed to lose their house and other properties to the Bank; and they used to brag about paying cash for everything.
Here's the list of PAID speakers with the year of their Diamond Qualification further proof that WWDB and Amway in General are just trying to milk as much $$$ out of IBOs using recycled success.
Ron and Georgia Lee Puryear - qualified Diamond in 1976
Glen and Joya Baker - qualified Diamond in 1993
Dave and Jan Severn - qualified Diamond in 1981
Mike and Michi Woods - They qualified Diamond in 1994
Greg and Laurie Duncan - They qualified Diamond in 1985
Jim and Judy Head - They qualified Diamond in 1984
Matt and Sandee Tsuruda - They qualified Diamond in 1994
Dan and Sandy Yuen - qualified Diamond in 1992
Joe and Norma Foglio - They qualified Diamond in 1989
Anonymous said...
Doesn't WWDB have anything better to do than recycle Diamonds that qualified in the last century, hasn't anyone qualified diamond in WWDB since 1994? To top it off you'll get to hear Greg and Laurie Duncan speak, maybe they'll talk about how they managed to lose their house and other properties to the Bank; and they used to brag about paying cash for everything.
Here's the list of PAID speakers with the year of their Diamond Qualification further proof that WWDB and Amway in General are just trying to milk as much $$$ out of IBOs using recycled success.
Ron and Georgia Lee Puryear - qualified Diamond in 1976
Glen and Joya Baker - qualified Diamond in 1993
Dave and Jan Severn - qualified Diamond in 1981
Mike and Michi Woods - They qualified Diamond in 1994
Greg and Laurie Duncan - They qualified Diamond in 1985
Jim and Judy Head - They qualified Diamond in 1984
Matt and Sandee Tsuruda - They qualified Diamond in 1994
Dan and Sandy Yuen - qualified Diamond in 1992
Joe and Norma Foglio - They qualified Diamond in 1989
Tuesday, June 21, 2011
Amway WWDB Commentary
No Dream says:
July 10, 2010 at 4:52 pm
This is unbelievable, I was hook, line and sinker into this business from 2001 until around 2005……I was told if I do not build this business that I, like many people, simply have NO DREAM in life. Since then, I started a my own business from scratch, no upfront costs, non-mlm, and have generated close to 500,000.00 dollars for 3 straight years, with a profit margin after all expenses (cell phone, gas, samples, office, and of course my cost for the products and materials to resell) of between 30-35%. No cd’s, no “kate”, no faking it, no meetings, no creeping around trying to act like i want to talk to someone then asking them about meeting with me. Having said all of this, I’m am blown away, I specifically heard a platinum tell me, when I asked about the Greg Duncan situation(s), that it was all a lie and the internet is full of liars, and that i was an idiot for even thinking twice about it. All the while, Greg Duncan stood on that stage, and lied and fed false information to good people who “believed” every word the Diamonds say (becouse if they don’t they have NO DREAM). What a joke.
I have personally apologized to every person who “signed” up for this scheme of WWDB with the “system” and tools. It is sociopathic and cult-like the way they all believe in these false prophets. And as Christian as they claim, the first time you question something or leave, they judge you. It’s just simply wrong. Someone please prove me wrong here.
July 10, 2010 at 4:52 pm
This is unbelievable, I was hook, line and sinker into this business from 2001 until around 2005……I was told if I do not build this business that I, like many people, simply have NO DREAM in life. Since then, I started a my own business from scratch, no upfront costs, non-mlm, and have generated close to 500,000.00 dollars for 3 straight years, with a profit margin after all expenses (cell phone, gas, samples, office, and of course my cost for the products and materials to resell) of between 30-35%. No cd’s, no “kate”, no faking it, no meetings, no creeping around trying to act like i want to talk to someone then asking them about meeting with me. Having said all of this, I’m am blown away, I specifically heard a platinum tell me, when I asked about the Greg Duncan situation(s), that it was all a lie and the internet is full of liars, and that i was an idiot for even thinking twice about it. All the while, Greg Duncan stood on that stage, and lied and fed false information to good people who “believed” every word the Diamonds say (becouse if they don’t they have NO DREAM). What a joke.
I have personally apologized to every person who “signed” up for this scheme of WWDB with the “system” and tools. It is sociopathic and cult-like the way they all believe in these false prophets. And as Christian as they claim, the first time you question something or leave, they judge you. It’s just simply wrong. Someone please prove me wrong here.
Tuesday, June 7, 2011
Outdated WWDB Experience?
See this comment made by a WWDB former IBO who quit much more recently than Joecool:
Not sure which one of Joecool's comments you are responding to in your last post, but for someone that hasn't been involved in the business for many years, what he describes in his last post is still fair representation of what's been taught by the systems in the last few years.
During my time in the business, I heard many of the same comments that Joecool references being made from the stage at opens, conferences, and night owls. I do specifically remember FED 2006 where Brad Duncan stated to the crowd that "the only reason people quit is because somebody stole their dream". In addition, I also heard Duncan make all of the same comments that Joecool references.
So, the argument that I may have had a bad upline has just been debunked. Brad Duncan was my upline Diamond, and it just the people between him and me making the statements Joecool references. I also doubt Mr. Duncan has stopped making such statements either in the time since I last heard him speak - hell, he was still making claims that a brand new Founders Diamond will make $700,000 in their first year not long before his FED comments... and I know that figure isn't a Quixtar/Amway approved number either.
As for that bottle of water you're sipping from, please tell me how much of a difference you taste between that and any other bottled water on the market... might as well get this thread back on topic.
Posted by: Exwwdbibo | May 3, 2008 10:28 PM
Not sure which one of Joecool's comments you are responding to in your last post, but for someone that hasn't been involved in the business for many years, what he describes in his last post is still fair representation of what's been taught by the systems in the last few years.
During my time in the business, I heard many of the same comments that Joecool references being made from the stage at opens, conferences, and night owls. I do specifically remember FED 2006 where Brad Duncan stated to the crowd that "the only reason people quit is because somebody stole their dream". In addition, I also heard Duncan make all of the same comments that Joecool references.
So, the argument that I may have had a bad upline has just been debunked. Brad Duncan was my upline Diamond, and it just the people between him and me making the statements Joecool references. I also doubt Mr. Duncan has stopped making such statements either in the time since I last heard him speak - hell, he was still making claims that a brand new Founders Diamond will make $700,000 in their first year not long before his FED comments... and I know that figure isn't a Quixtar/Amway approved number either.
As for that bottle of water you're sipping from, please tell me how much of a difference you taste between that and any other bottled water on the market... might as well get this thread back on topic.
Posted by: Exwwdbibo | May 3, 2008 10:28 PM
Monday, June 6, 2011
WWDB Saves Marriages?
I guess they still teach this BS in WWDB:
Dreambuilder for life says:
May 6, 2010 at 1:23 pm
For all of you who are being so critical, not once have I ever heard a diamond in Worldwide Dreambuilders claim to be super human or better than anyone else. In fact it is quite the opposite. Worldwide diamonds are constantly saying that they are nothing special, human just like the rest of us. If you put people up on a pedestal you Will be let down because no matter how hard we try, people are not perfect.
And here is a nice fact for you; within this organization that many of you are being so critical of, the divorce rate is less than 1% compared to our national rate the ranges anywhere from 60% all the way up to the low 80′s. Get your facts people and quit being so judgemental of other people! I am sure you are not perfect either!
Dreambuilder for life says:
May 6, 2010 at 1:23 pm
For all of you who are being so critical, not once have I ever heard a diamond in Worldwide Dreambuilders claim to be super human or better than anyone else. In fact it is quite the opposite. Worldwide diamonds are constantly saying that they are nothing special, human just like the rest of us. If you put people up on a pedestal you Will be let down because no matter how hard we try, people are not perfect.
And here is a nice fact for you; within this organization that many of you are being so critical of, the divorce rate is less than 1% compared to our national rate the ranges anywhere from 60% all the way up to the low 80′s. Get your facts people and quit being so judgemental of other people! I am sure you are not perfect either!
Tuesday, May 24, 2011
More WWDB Testimony
I was an ex-ibo DL in the G Duncan organization. Also, achieved DD aka Platinum, Q12, Ruby level for several years breaking dl directs. I can tell you all that upline Diamonds made majority of their $$ through books, tapes (CDs) and functions. The WWDB system is a farce and all their teachings of 6-4-2 and any of their latest spins on an antiquated system are hogwash.
In terms of “open” discussion with upline on your future in achieving Diamond level, that attitude was always “get to that level and then we’ll talk” – Even when achieving the Platinum level, upline will not disclose minimal info (need to know basis) to you regarding tape/cd/book breaks, etc. Know this limited info, you can use some deductive reasoning and deduce that upline will also get “more $$$ perks” wrt functions, etc.
The biggest issue I’ve always had with this “need to know bases” info only when you attain a level such as Platinum, and above, is how in the heck can one plan for one’s own long term for their future, retiring as a WWDB Diamond, or for that matter even at the Ruby level – we’ve all heard and seen how there were distributor’s (Ruby’s) such as Dean Kosage, Rod Jao that “retired” at these lower levels.
ANSWER? You can’t! Not without knowing what the parameters are and how to plan in advance. Upline would never answer my questions related to the long term parameters. The only reply I’d get from upline was “just keep doing what your doing, and you’ll go Diamond”. Well, coming from a successful financial background (I am no spring chicken), this regurgitated answer month after month, year after year, didnt cut it for me.
The reality is this: They get you in, you build a level of business that’s solid or close to it – ie. Platinum level, and then if you decide that you don’t like what they teach or how the WWDB program works, your upline will work around you and literally “dismember” your business so that they can inherit all YOUR HARD WORK and leave you in the dust.
How do I know this?
I spoken to many ex-platinum IBOs I’ve gotten to know and built friendships with, locally, in Washington State and Calif. and the stories I’ve heard from them are all similar. Upline Diamond coming into attempt to convince them the “vital” importance of books, cds and functions (attend ALL functions) and if that did not work, then a more aggressive arm twisting through misinformation to the DL tactics would erupt. In some cases, upline Diamond literally comes in one-to-one and uses “subtle” words to push you aside.
So those defending the “system”, I have no anomosity against you personally. What you need to do is keep your eyes wide open and not “eyes wide open shut” like many platinums + did and still do.
Guaranteed, you get rid of the huge money making aspect of the books, cds and functions in these groups and your Diamond, even emeralds with be in the rough.
In terms of “open” discussion with upline on your future in achieving Diamond level, that attitude was always “get to that level and then we’ll talk” – Even when achieving the Platinum level, upline will not disclose minimal info (need to know basis) to you regarding tape/cd/book breaks, etc. Know this limited info, you can use some deductive reasoning and deduce that upline will also get “more $$$ perks” wrt functions, etc.
The biggest issue I’ve always had with this “need to know bases” info only when you attain a level such as Platinum, and above, is how in the heck can one plan for one’s own long term for their future, retiring as a WWDB Diamond, or for that matter even at the Ruby level – we’ve all heard and seen how there were distributor’s (Ruby’s) such as Dean Kosage, Rod Jao that “retired” at these lower levels.
ANSWER? You can’t! Not without knowing what the parameters are and how to plan in advance. Upline would never answer my questions related to the long term parameters. The only reply I’d get from upline was “just keep doing what your doing, and you’ll go Diamond”. Well, coming from a successful financial background (I am no spring chicken), this regurgitated answer month after month, year after year, didnt cut it for me.
The reality is this: They get you in, you build a level of business that’s solid or close to it – ie. Platinum level, and then if you decide that you don’t like what they teach or how the WWDB program works, your upline will work around you and literally “dismember” your business so that they can inherit all YOUR HARD WORK and leave you in the dust.
How do I know this?
I spoken to many ex-platinum IBOs I’ve gotten to know and built friendships with, locally, in Washington State and Calif. and the stories I’ve heard from them are all similar. Upline Diamond coming into attempt to convince them the “vital” importance of books, cds and functions (attend ALL functions) and if that did not work, then a more aggressive arm twisting through misinformation to the DL tactics would erupt. In some cases, upline Diamond literally comes in one-to-one and uses “subtle” words to push you aside.
So those defending the “system”, I have no anomosity against you personally. What you need to do is keep your eyes wide open and not “eyes wide open shut” like many platinums + did and still do.
Guaranteed, you get rid of the huge money making aspect of the books, cds and functions in these groups and your Diamond, even emeralds with be in the rough.
Tuesday, May 17, 2011
WWDB Comment
No Dream says:
July 10, 2010 at 11:48 pm
Again, I cannot understand these guys. And those of you that were in “the business” or are in “the business” know what goes on. The bottom line, is that these guys know that Wolgamott was having the extra-marital affairs and still let him get up there and talk about his loving wife and how the business saves marriages, they knew that Greg Duncan was double minded and chasing multiple rabbits, yet they let him get up there and talk about how stupid people are who get loans to buy homes, they knew all of this stuff yet they did nothing about it. And what is the number one thing they talk about, integrity. Where is the integrity in that? They also do this and call themselves Christians? How can they look each other in the eye? And the downline platinums and above are so duped by this that they perpetuate lie after lie. You cannot defend this WWDB loyalists, how can you? I’m not against Amway per se, they have products, you by them at wholesale, and resell them, that is legit. But i am against the WWDB system 100%, they make most of their money off the tools and functions, and then pull this kind of stuff and then deny it. I would be embarassed if I was one of you. I would apologize to everyone you ever signed up for this business, save your integrity, admit when you are wrong. All of us people with “NO DREAM” just becouse we don’t think that building and Amway is the best way to do attain our dream?……..please, someone prove me wrong, you cannot defend what they (Ron and his cronies) allow to happen, and you cannot defend what those individuals are doing. How embarassing.
July 10, 2010 at 11:48 pm
Again, I cannot understand these guys. And those of you that were in “the business” or are in “the business” know what goes on. The bottom line, is that these guys know that Wolgamott was having the extra-marital affairs and still let him get up there and talk about his loving wife and how the business saves marriages, they knew that Greg Duncan was double minded and chasing multiple rabbits, yet they let him get up there and talk about how stupid people are who get loans to buy homes, they knew all of this stuff yet they did nothing about it. And what is the number one thing they talk about, integrity. Where is the integrity in that? They also do this and call themselves Christians? How can they look each other in the eye? And the downline platinums and above are so duped by this that they perpetuate lie after lie. You cannot defend this WWDB loyalists, how can you? I’m not against Amway per se, they have products, you by them at wholesale, and resell them, that is legit. But i am against the WWDB system 100%, they make most of their money off the tools and functions, and then pull this kind of stuff and then deny it. I would be embarassed if I was one of you. I would apologize to everyone you ever signed up for this business, save your integrity, admit when you are wrong. All of us people with “NO DREAM” just becouse we don’t think that building and Amway is the best way to do attain our dream?……..please, someone prove me wrong, you cannot defend what they (Ron and his cronies) allow to happen, and you cannot defend what those individuals are doing. How embarassing.
Wednesday, April 27, 2011
WWDB IBO Comment?
SUSAN says:
April 2, 2011 at 8:39 am
I was in WORLD WIDE FOR 11 YEARS I went to all functions bought over 4000 in tapes 1500 in books spent 3500 on meetings and made about 900 to 1220 bucks in 11 years ……My up-line was a complete jerk who pried into my personal life told me how I should think speak eat and ALWAYS I REPEAT ALWAYS MADE ME FEEL HORRIBLE IF I WAS LATE OR COULD NOT GET OFF WORK FOR A MEETING….He would scream at me he was never a mentor just a tormentor!! I sponsored about 70 to 80 people they all quit and Now I have been inactive for 4 years …. So sad cause I believe if I had the right up-line I really could have made it in WORLD WIDE …..HIS NAME WAS MIKE FREIDMAN ….I believe he has since quit the business about a year ago ….He was a horrible person ….World Wide taught me a lot of great stuff like how to believe in my self and be supper positive ….Of which I am grateful for …..But my experience has left me so jaded I could never get back in this business again ….What bothered me the most was when I left I even contacted Ron Purer to return my tools ((OVER 5000.00 )) cause I no longer had a use for them ….He simply said no ….So I threw them in the trash and moved on with my life……
April 2, 2011 at 8:39 am
I was in WORLD WIDE FOR 11 YEARS I went to all functions bought over 4000 in tapes 1500 in books spent 3500 on meetings and made about 900 to 1220 bucks in 11 years ……My up-line was a complete jerk who pried into my personal life told me how I should think speak eat and ALWAYS I REPEAT ALWAYS MADE ME FEEL HORRIBLE IF I WAS LATE OR COULD NOT GET OFF WORK FOR A MEETING….He would scream at me he was never a mentor just a tormentor!! I sponsored about 70 to 80 people they all quit and Now I have been inactive for 4 years …. So sad cause I believe if I had the right up-line I really could have made it in WORLD WIDE …..HIS NAME WAS MIKE FREIDMAN ….I believe he has since quit the business about a year ago ….He was a horrible person ….World Wide taught me a lot of great stuff like how to believe in my self and be supper positive ….Of which I am grateful for …..But my experience has left me so jaded I could never get back in this business again ….What bothered me the most was when I left I even contacted Ron Purer to return my tools ((OVER 5000.00 )) cause I no longer had a use for them ….He simply said no ….So I threw them in the trash and moved on with my life……
Tuesday, April 26, 2011
Building Dreams?
Amway - WWDB Dream Building?
I have been in touch with an IBO who is in WWDB. Apparently dream building is a big part of WWDB. While it is good to have goals and dreams, I find it somewhat interesting to know that only a select few people in WWDB ever reached these goals and dreams because of their involvement with WWDB and Amway. In fact, despite claims by our upline that WWDB was the "best" and more profitable LOS, there is little or no evidence that this is true. I have not seen many new diamonds emerge from WWDB, but on the contrary, I have seen evidence of WWDB diamonds having their homes foreclosed and/or involvement with bankruptucy.
In my opinion, this dream building approach is simply a tactic to get a prospect interested in the opportunity and then the upline will tell the prospect that the way to achieve these dreams is to be dedicated to the system (WWDB). This is the same system that has few new diamonds and diamonds in apparent financial difficulty. These dreams may also help to retain some IBOs in the system as it would seem that quitting Amway and WWDB means these dreams are no longer attainable.
If you are an information seeker or a struggling IBO, a question you may want to consider is whether your dedication to Amway and WWDB progressing you towards these stated dream or if you are simply channeling your money into products and training materials which helps achieve other people's dreams?
Below is an excerpt from a WWDB IBO about dreambuilding:
So that’s why we have pictures and words of affirmation around our house. When you come into our condo you’ll see words like “Overcome”, “do the opposite of the masses”, “The best is yet to come”, “Play Injured”, “Are you living a dream, or just living your life”, “Break through the wall of fear”, “We' re all in” and more. We believe these things motivate us and give us a dream. Then you’ll see stuff on our fridge like pictures of Kelowna where we want to live, Wineries, because we love wine, in my office you’ll see a picture of a Breitling Chronomat B01 watch because that’s the watch I want, you’ll see magazines with inspirational things in them that relate to us. It’s these things that keep our dreams alive.
It’s so important to do this whether you are building this business or not. This what i’m writing about is part of the 95% of what we do with World Wide Dreambuilders. The 5%, the Amway Global portion is the vehicle for the 95%. You need a dream, goals and passion so that you have something to work towards.
We’ve got BIG dreams, and so should you!
I have been in touch with an IBO who is in WWDB. Apparently dream building is a big part of WWDB. While it is good to have goals and dreams, I find it somewhat interesting to know that only a select few people in WWDB ever reached these goals and dreams because of their involvement with WWDB and Amway. In fact, despite claims by our upline that WWDB was the "best" and more profitable LOS, there is little or no evidence that this is true. I have not seen many new diamonds emerge from WWDB, but on the contrary, I have seen evidence of WWDB diamonds having their homes foreclosed and/or involvement with bankruptucy.
In my opinion, this dream building approach is simply a tactic to get a prospect interested in the opportunity and then the upline will tell the prospect that the way to achieve these dreams is to be dedicated to the system (WWDB). This is the same system that has few new diamonds and diamonds in apparent financial difficulty. These dreams may also help to retain some IBOs in the system as it would seem that quitting Amway and WWDB means these dreams are no longer attainable.
If you are an information seeker or a struggling IBO, a question you may want to consider is whether your dedication to Amway and WWDB progressing you towards these stated dream or if you are simply channeling your money into products and training materials which helps achieve other people's dreams?
Below is an excerpt from a WWDB IBO about dreambuilding:
So that’s why we have pictures and words of affirmation around our house. When you come into our condo you’ll see words like “Overcome”, “do the opposite of the masses”, “The best is yet to come”, “Play Injured”, “Are you living a dream, or just living your life”, “Break through the wall of fear”, “We' re all in” and more. We believe these things motivate us and give us a dream. Then you’ll see stuff on our fridge like pictures of Kelowna where we want to live, Wineries, because we love wine, in my office you’ll see a picture of a Breitling Chronomat B01 watch because that’s the watch I want, you’ll see magazines with inspirational things in them that relate to us. It’s these things that keep our dreams alive.
It’s so important to do this whether you are building this business or not. This what i’m writing about is part of the 95% of what we do with World Wide Dreambuilders. The 5%, the Amway Global portion is the vehicle for the 95%. You need a dream, goals and passion so that you have something to work towards.
We’ve got BIG dreams, and so should you!
Tuesday, April 12, 2011
WWDB Needs An Upgrade?
It's funny when I see Amway apologists talking about all the exciting new changes in Amway and WWDB and how the business is so much different than the "old days" when many critics may have experienced something that doesn't happen anymore. Then I see IBO blogs or other blog comments confirming that WWDB is basically the same old LOS with basically the same old leaders.
As time has passed, some of these leaders have been exposed as hypocrites and frauds. One diamond who taught that Amway saves marriages is no longer with his wife. Another leader, touted for his financial acumen, was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. More than one diamond has lost their homes in foreclosure (I thought WWDB diamonds paid cash for everything?). I still see the same old things taught, even the part about buying homes in cash. Get out fo debt, which is good, but IBOs are given the okay to go in hock for tools.
WWDB still uses voicemail. What does anyone need voicemail for in an age where we have facebook, twitter, emails and other technologies? It is likely because uplines profit nicely from selling voicemail. Why do we need to have standing orders in an age where we have youtibe and other media to convey the same messages? Is it because uplines profit from standing orders? Why should IBOs spend valuable resources to travel to major functions several times a year when there is video conferencing and other ways to transmit information? Is it because uplines likely make their biggest profit from these conventions and functions?
Where are the new leaders and emerging growth? *Crickets Chirping*
As time has passed, some of these leaders have been exposed as hypocrites and frauds. One diamond who taught that Amway saves marriages is no longer with his wife. Another leader, touted for his financial acumen, was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. More than one diamond has lost their homes in foreclosure (I thought WWDB diamonds paid cash for everything?). I still see the same old things taught, even the part about buying homes in cash. Get out fo debt, which is good, but IBOs are given the okay to go in hock for tools.
WWDB still uses voicemail. What does anyone need voicemail for in an age where we have facebook, twitter, emails and other technologies? It is likely because uplines profit nicely from selling voicemail. Why do we need to have standing orders in an age where we have youtibe and other media to convey the same messages? Is it because uplines profit from standing orders? Why should IBOs spend valuable resources to travel to major functions several times a year when there is video conferencing and other ways to transmit information? Is it because uplines likely make their biggest profit from these conventions and functions?
Where are the new leaders and emerging growth? *Crickets Chirping*
Tuesday, April 5, 2011
The Fruit On The WWDB Tree?
One thing I often heard from WWDB speakers was that WWDB was the fastest growing and most profitbale LOS is all of Amway. While it may have been true at some point in time, I don't believe it was true when I was an IBO and I don't believe it is true now. Many leaders would talk about looking at the fruit on the tree. It looks like the WWDB tree is currently bare with only some rotting fruit left on the branches.
In the US, I cannot think or more than 1 or 2 new diamonds in the last ten years or so. In a 2-5 year plan, you'd think there would be a steady stream of new diamonds emerging each year. Instead, I believe WWDB has fewer diamonds now than they did ten years ago. Some of their current diamonds have lost homes through foreclosure, some of them have divorced, including one who taught that WWDB saves marriages. One WWDB triple diamond was involved in bankruptcy. Is this the kind of fruit we want to bear?
Many of the same old tired leaders are still active and likely teaching the same old stuff they taught when I was an IBO. Some of them each self serving garbage that doesn't help IBOs, but helps themselves by selling useless tools to new and unsuspecting IBOs. There is no unbiased evidence that standing orders and functions do anything for IBOs. There's no fruit on the WWDB tree. In some cases, WWDB leaders are holding smaller but multiple functions. I wonder if they aren't simply killing the golden goose by milking out multiple function ticket purchases out of their faithful downline? While the downline may not see is this way, many neutral observers can clearly see what is going on.
In my informed opinion, WWDB is an LOS whose time has come and gone. Just look at the lack of fruit on their tree.
In the US, I cannot think or more than 1 or 2 new diamonds in the last ten years or so. In a 2-5 year plan, you'd think there would be a steady stream of new diamonds emerging each year. Instead, I believe WWDB has fewer diamonds now than they did ten years ago. Some of their current diamonds have lost homes through foreclosure, some of them have divorced, including one who taught that WWDB saves marriages. One WWDB triple diamond was involved in bankruptcy. Is this the kind of fruit we want to bear?
Many of the same old tired leaders are still active and likely teaching the same old stuff they taught when I was an IBO. Some of them each self serving garbage that doesn't help IBOs, but helps themselves by selling useless tools to new and unsuspecting IBOs. There is no unbiased evidence that standing orders and functions do anything for IBOs. There's no fruit on the WWDB tree. In some cases, WWDB leaders are holding smaller but multiple functions. I wonder if they aren't simply killing the golden goose by milking out multiple function ticket purchases out of their faithful downline? While the downline may not see is this way, many neutral observers can clearly see what is going on.
In my informed opinion, WWDB is an LOS whose time has come and gone. Just look at the lack of fruit on their tree.
Thursday, March 31, 2011
WWDB Works?
Based on my experience in Amway, my blogging experience, and observation of other people who give financial advice such as real estate gurus who teach you to buy property with no money down, or others such as Robert Kiyosaki for that matter, all show testimonials of sucessful people. Obviously they do not show you the vast majority of people who try their systems and fail. The number of people who make a significant income from any of these systems is probably a small fraction of 1%. Is that your surefire path to long term sustainable success?
It is my informed opinion that whether it is Amway, WWDB, BWW, N21, real estate or the cashflow business, the vast majority of people who try these systems do not make any kind of significant income. Sure, some do, and those are shown as the possibilities. But if you watch infomercials, you will see in small print on the bottom of the screen, "unique experience", your results may vary. I believe that a similar message used to be at the end of Amway diamond recordings as well.
These systems in general do not work for various reasons. Many people simply do not have the acumen to work the system. Or the system has too many variables for the system to work, or the system calls for things beyond your control. For example, success in Amway generally requires you to sponsor others, something that is beyond the control of most people. Add in the lazy and people who are hoping for a quick score and it is understandable that most will fail. But these systems are often set up where the majority simply cannot all succeed. Nowhere is that more true than the Amway business where the pyramidal compensation plan nearly guarantees failure for the lower level IBOs. In addition to an unfair compensation plan, IBOs often make their damage worse by purchasing tools.
So what can someone do? Well, it may not be as sexy or attractive but a part time job and investing and saving might be something to think about. Even a part time business where you focus on selling products for a profit might work. It just seems prudent to avoid these "systems" as the primary beneficiary of these "systems" are the ones who directly profit from them, and not the IBOs. Food for thought?
It is my informed opinion that whether it is Amway, WWDB, BWW, N21, real estate or the cashflow business, the vast majority of people who try these systems do not make any kind of significant income. Sure, some do, and those are shown as the possibilities. But if you watch infomercials, you will see in small print on the bottom of the screen, "unique experience", your results may vary. I believe that a similar message used to be at the end of Amway diamond recordings as well.
These systems in general do not work for various reasons. Many people simply do not have the acumen to work the system. Or the system has too many variables for the system to work, or the system calls for things beyond your control. For example, success in Amway generally requires you to sponsor others, something that is beyond the control of most people. Add in the lazy and people who are hoping for a quick score and it is understandable that most will fail. But these systems are often set up where the majority simply cannot all succeed. Nowhere is that more true than the Amway business where the pyramidal compensation plan nearly guarantees failure for the lower level IBOs. In addition to an unfair compensation plan, IBOs often make their damage worse by purchasing tools.
So what can someone do? Well, it may not be as sexy or attractive but a part time job and investing and saving might be something to think about. Even a part time business where you focus on selling products for a profit might work. It just seems prudent to avoid these "systems" as the primary beneficiary of these "systems" are the ones who directly profit from them, and not the IBOs. Food for thought?
Monday, March 28, 2011
WWDB Success?
When I was a young IBO, I saw the plan and thought it was realistic to go direct and to find six (6) downlines who could do the same thing. I didn't know the realistic chances of doing this, but the presentation made sense so I went with it. I basically built my group on excitement and it seemed like the system could work. Sadly, as I climbed the ranks, my bottom line did not change. I did not "net" $200 at the 1000 PV level, and I did not "net" $1000 a month at 4000 PV as my upline taught. I had the parameters they taught, but the reality was my leaders taught everyone to pump what little profits we earned into buying more tools.
My leaders also taught people to get out of debt, which was good advice on the surface, but at the same time, any disposable income left over was to be channeled into tools, and for those who did not escape debt, they were told it was okay to go deeper in debt, but only if it was to "invest" in their businesses by purchasing more tools. Thus it certainly appears that upline's advice was purely self serving and had nothing to do with an IBO's individual success.
I was in WWDB and they (upline) said that WWDB was breaking the most new diamonds and that WWDB diamonds were the most profitable. So here it is a dozen years later, where are all these new diamonds? Aside from from foreign diamonds, there are (I believe) less than 4 new diamonds from WWDB in the US from the time I left the business. Now I may be wrong, but even it was a few more than 4 new diamonds, that is a miserable success rate given the amount of cash spent by downline on tools and the claims made my upline about the tools.
We have also seen some WWDB diamonds end up in home foreclosures. Where is the integrity and financial acumen these leaders boasted about? Where is the success and long term financial security available to everyone that was touted? I believe more diamonds and emeralds fell out of qualification than new pins emerged. The business was promoted as one that would stand the test of time. Sadly, I believe WWDB and the Amway opportunity as promoted by WWDB has been a miserable failure.
There is little success to speak of, just he same old tired diamonds showing off a lifestyle that some of them apparently can no longer afford. Where is the success?
It is years later and we are still waiting.......
My leaders also taught people to get out of debt, which was good advice on the surface, but at the same time, any disposable income left over was to be channeled into tools, and for those who did not escape debt, they were told it was okay to go deeper in debt, but only if it was to "invest" in their businesses by purchasing more tools. Thus it certainly appears that upline's advice was purely self serving and had nothing to do with an IBO's individual success.
I was in WWDB and they (upline) said that WWDB was breaking the most new diamonds and that WWDB diamonds were the most profitable. So here it is a dozen years later, where are all these new diamonds? Aside from from foreign diamonds, there are (I believe) less than 4 new diamonds from WWDB in the US from the time I left the business. Now I may be wrong, but even it was a few more than 4 new diamonds, that is a miserable success rate given the amount of cash spent by downline on tools and the claims made my upline about the tools.
We have also seen some WWDB diamonds end up in home foreclosures. Where is the integrity and financial acumen these leaders boasted about? Where is the success and long term financial security available to everyone that was touted? I believe more diamonds and emeralds fell out of qualification than new pins emerged. The business was promoted as one that would stand the test of time. Sadly, I believe WWDB and the Amway opportunity as promoted by WWDB has been a miserable failure.
There is little success to speak of, just he same old tired diamonds showing off a lifestyle that some of them apparently can no longer afford. Where is the success?
It is years later and we are still waiting.......
Wednesday, March 23, 2011
WWDB Advice?
We have had some really good discussion on this blog recently about how someone can build a business in Amway without abusing downline. I was an IBO in WWDB, and I was given really bad advice from upline. These uplines are still around and apparently still giving some of the same bad advice to downline. Having said that, I believe there are some factions within WWDB who may be operating differently. I contributor on this blog, James C. has explained in some of his comments, how he operates, contrary to the mainstream WWDB teachings. Thus I was inspired to write this post.
My sponsor and uplines were Harimoto, Wolgamott, Duncan. We were taught that Amway saves marriages, and that the rest of the world gets divorced. Ironically, I believe Wolgamott is now seperated and possibly divorced or in the process of getting divorced. Greg Duncan was touted for his financial acumen and told the audience that only stupid people took out loans, even to purchase a home. Then we find out he was in bankruptcy proceedings with interest only loans. This is just a side bar. I will further explain what other advice was given to rank and file IBOs.
My sponsor and uplines told us that we should never miss a meeting. Period. That missing a meeting was setting a bad example for your group. In fact we should always purchase extra tickets to meetings and functions as an incentive to bring guests. We were taught that in addition to standing order, we should be purchasing 5-7 extra tapes/cds each week. Afterall, you can't listen to the same recording each day if you are core. We were told that if you had downlline who quit, you could not cancel a standing order because it was too much trouble to call upline who called upline who finally reached Greg Duncan to cancel a standing order. I found it ironic that they NEVER complained about calling upline who called upline who finally reached Greg Duncan to ADD a standing order. Our group was also told that nobody made a cent of profit from the tools. A lie that nobody has ever been accountable for to this day. If selling products were ever mentioned, it was only so IBOs could earn money to buy more function tickets and/or standing orders.
Our upline also enjoyed holding meeting after meeting, AFTER the functions. Thus IBOs went home after 3:00 in the morning at times, even on nights when the job was waiting for them the next morning. Our upline also taught more tenured IBOs that money wasn't important in the business because we are friends for life. The group was taught that we could have our families skip meals in order to buy more tapes/cds. IBOs were told that they should NEVER quit, unless they give up on life as they would be doomed for financial failure.
This is some of the bad advice I heard from some WWDB leaders. These leaders are still around today and I believe some of this is still taught. What does your upline advise?
My sponsor and uplines were Harimoto, Wolgamott, Duncan. We were taught that Amway saves marriages, and that the rest of the world gets divorced. Ironically, I believe Wolgamott is now seperated and possibly divorced or in the process of getting divorced. Greg Duncan was touted for his financial acumen and told the audience that only stupid people took out loans, even to purchase a home. Then we find out he was in bankruptcy proceedings with interest only loans. This is just a side bar. I will further explain what other advice was given to rank and file IBOs.
My sponsor and uplines told us that we should never miss a meeting. Period. That missing a meeting was setting a bad example for your group. In fact we should always purchase extra tickets to meetings and functions as an incentive to bring guests. We were taught that in addition to standing order, we should be purchasing 5-7 extra tapes/cds each week. Afterall, you can't listen to the same recording each day if you are core. We were told that if you had downlline who quit, you could not cancel a standing order because it was too much trouble to call upline who called upline who finally reached Greg Duncan to cancel a standing order. I found it ironic that they NEVER complained about calling upline who called upline who finally reached Greg Duncan to ADD a standing order. Our group was also told that nobody made a cent of profit from the tools. A lie that nobody has ever been accountable for to this day. If selling products were ever mentioned, it was only so IBOs could earn money to buy more function tickets and/or standing orders.
Our upline also enjoyed holding meeting after meeting, AFTER the functions. Thus IBOs went home after 3:00 in the morning at times, even on nights when the job was waiting for them the next morning. Our upline also taught more tenured IBOs that money wasn't important in the business because we are friends for life. The group was taught that we could have our families skip meals in order to buy more tapes/cds. IBOs were told that they should NEVER quit, unless they give up on life as they would be doomed for financial failure.
This is some of the bad advice I heard from some WWDB leaders. These leaders are still around today and I believe some of this is still taught. What does your upline advise?
Monday, March 21, 2011
WWDB Saves Marriages?
So many Amway apologists talk about changes, and that critics are outdated, yet we keep seeing exmples of this stuff where it's painfully apparent that WWDB leaders are still teaching things like this. I will edit and add on more testimonies about WWDB saving marriages.
http://amwayblog.com/brad-wolgamott-blog/
Dreambuilder for life says:
May 6, 2010 at 1:23 pm
For all of you who are being so critical, not once have I ever heard a diamond in Worldwide Dreambuilders claim to be super human or better than anyone else. In fact it is quite the opposite. Worldwide diamonds are constantly saying that they are nothing special, human just like the rest of us. If you put people up on a pedestal you Will be let down because no matter how hard we try, people are not perfect. And here is a nice fact for you; within this organization that many of you are being so critical of, the divorce rate is less than 1% compared to our national rate the ranges anywhere from 60% all the way up to the low 80’s. Get your facts people and quit being so judgemental of other people! I am sure you are not perfect either!
Another WWDB IBO statement:
http://expeditionoftruths.com/2010/03/22/calgary-regional-rally-reflections/
I’m SICK and tired of all the divorces out there, all the negativity out there, so what’s so wrong about re-educating myself with positive energy where people have AWESOME marriages?? By the way, the divorce rate in the normal job world is over 60%, the divorce rate in our line of business is about 2%.
Joe's commentary: I doubt these IBOs are making this up. They are being taught this crap by WWDB leaders, apparently.
http://amwayblog.com/brad-wolgamott-blog/
Dreambuilder for life says:
May 6, 2010 at 1:23 pm
For all of you who are being so critical, not once have I ever heard a diamond in Worldwide Dreambuilders claim to be super human or better than anyone else. In fact it is quite the opposite. Worldwide diamonds are constantly saying that they are nothing special, human just like the rest of us. If you put people up on a pedestal you Will be let down because no matter how hard we try, people are not perfect. And here is a nice fact for you; within this organization that many of you are being so critical of, the divorce rate is less than 1% compared to our national rate the ranges anywhere from 60% all the way up to the low 80’s. Get your facts people and quit being so judgemental of other people! I am sure you are not perfect either!
Another WWDB IBO statement:
http://expeditionoftruths.com/2010/03/22/calgary-regional-rally-reflections/
I’m SICK and tired of all the divorces out there, all the negativity out there, so what’s so wrong about re-educating myself with positive energy where people have AWESOME marriages?? By the way, the divorce rate in the normal job world is over 60%, the divorce rate in our line of business is about 2%.
Joe's commentary: I doubt these IBOs are making this up. They are being taught this crap by WWDB leaders, apparently.
No Selling Required?
Another thing taught by some WWDB leaders was that there was no selling required. You could ask a prospect if they liked selling, and if they said no, you could say "great, this business is perfect for you". I would guess that most people do no enjoy selling things, and if you add in the spotty Amway reputation, then it makes it that much more difficult to move products to non IBO customers.
Some leaders simply taught the philosophy of buying from youself. That way you are moving volume but you don't have to get uncomfortable enough to go out and sell stuff. You just use your own goods each month and try to sponsor people who also want to buy from themselves and get others to do the same. I believe this method of business may border on illegal so it would likely be taught in smaller settings rather than on a major function stage.
Oddly enough, if you stop and think about this for a minute, in what business can anyone earn a nice living without selling a product or service? The answer is there are none, but some uplines trick their downline into thinking they can earn financial freedom from self consumption. I once asked my sponsor how Amway tracked our customer sales to determine who qualified for a bonus and my sponsor said not to worry about it since noone bothered to check. Imagine that?
While there are some IBOs who do sell some goods, I would think that anyone with significant products sales is a rare individual indeed. Looking back, many of my sales were to those who were probably more sympathetic to my cause than a genuine want or need for Amway products. This can be confirmed by the apparent relatively few ex IBOs who continue to buy Amway goods. If ex IBO sales were common, then Amway sales would coninue to skyrocket even if IBOs were dropping like flies.
No selling required? Beware!
Some leaders simply taught the philosophy of buying from youself. That way you are moving volume but you don't have to get uncomfortable enough to go out and sell stuff. You just use your own goods each month and try to sponsor people who also want to buy from themselves and get others to do the same. I believe this method of business may border on illegal so it would likely be taught in smaller settings rather than on a major function stage.
Oddly enough, if you stop and think about this for a minute, in what business can anyone earn a nice living without selling a product or service? The answer is there are none, but some uplines trick their downline into thinking they can earn financial freedom from self consumption. I once asked my sponsor how Amway tracked our customer sales to determine who qualified for a bonus and my sponsor said not to worry about it since noone bothered to check. Imagine that?
While there are some IBOs who do sell some goods, I would think that anyone with significant products sales is a rare individual indeed. Looking back, many of my sales were to those who were probably more sympathetic to my cause than a genuine want or need for Amway products. This can be confirmed by the apparent relatively few ex IBOs who continue to buy Amway goods. If ex IBO sales were common, then Amway sales would coninue to skyrocket even if IBOs were dropping like flies.
No selling required? Beware!
Saturday, March 19, 2011
The Illusion Of Profit?
One of the things taught by WWDB leaders at major functions, and on standing orders was how IBOs could make quick profits. It was to "buy from yourself", but to pay your business full retail. So the IBO markup went into your business account as a profit, along with your bonus checks. Nice, so you take your own money and move it into a separate account and you have a quick profit.
At one time, I was fooled into this thought process. It gave me the illusion that my business account covered some of the costs of doing business. In reality, my business was losing money until I reached about the 4000 PV level, at which time my business was about break even. Some IBOs figured ths out, but uplines justified it by claiming that our dreams should overcome any obstacles, or that we are getting detail-itis. One other thing we were told was that the money will be there when you build it big enough, but that the business was more than money. We now had lifelong friends and were becoming nicer and better people.
I encourage IBOs to take a hard look at their real profits and losses. See if your prospects of turning a net profit are good or not. Make your decisions based on facts, and not on emotions and dreams. Analyze your monthly results. Determine if the "system" is actually helping you or if it's just draining your bank account like it does for most IBOs. Do not fall for the illusion of profit.
At one time, I was fooled into this thought process. It gave me the illusion that my business account covered some of the costs of doing business. In reality, my business was losing money until I reached about the 4000 PV level, at which time my business was about break even. Some IBOs figured ths out, but uplines justified it by claiming that our dreams should overcome any obstacles, or that we are getting detail-itis. One other thing we were told was that the money will be there when you build it big enough, but that the business was more than money. We now had lifelong friends and were becoming nicer and better people.
I encourage IBOs to take a hard look at their real profits and losses. See if your prospects of turning a net profit are good or not. Make your decisions based on facts, and not on emotions and dreams. Analyze your monthly results. Determine if the "system" is actually helping you or if it's just draining your bank account like it does for most IBOs. Do not fall for the illusion of profit.
Friday, March 18, 2011
My Time In WWDB
I started this blog to share by experience in Amway and WWDB. As a new IBO, I was excited about being in WWDB. They (the leaders) said WWDB was the fastest and most profitable LOS (Aren't they all?) I remember being told that WWDB diamonds made 2-3 time more money than other groups. THat if we the downline "duplicated" what was taught, we too could be rolling in dough and walking the beaches.
I was only involved in Amway for a full year, but seriously active for less than that. However, what I saw and experienced in that timeframe is appalling and downright scary in retrospect. I remember more than one couple going bankrupt, and recall at least two couples who lost their homes by following upline advice to never miss a function. Being in Hawaii, major functions costed a lot because they are normally held during peak travel times, and required round trip tickets from Hawaii to Washington (State) or to Oregon. I witnessed an upline leader teaching about how long you could hold off paying for your mortgage or utilities before action would be taken against you. It's almost evil now that I look back on the whole thing.
The scary thing is that many of the leaders I saw, are still in business and still teaching downline. It looks apparent that the same leaders teach the same old stuff today, that they taught in the past. More to come soon......
I was only involved in Amway for a full year, but seriously active for less than that. However, what I saw and experienced in that timeframe is appalling and downright scary in retrospect. I remember more than one couple going bankrupt, and recall at least two couples who lost their homes by following upline advice to never miss a function. Being in Hawaii, major functions costed a lot because they are normally held during peak travel times, and required round trip tickets from Hawaii to Washington (State) or to Oregon. I witnessed an upline leader teaching about how long you could hold off paying for your mortgage or utilities before action would be taken against you. It's almost evil now that I look back on the whole thing.
The scary thing is that many of the leaders I saw, are still in business and still teaching downline. It looks apparent that the same leaders teach the same old stuff today, that they taught in the past. More to come soon......
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