Sunday, November 24, 2013

WWDB Wants Your Money At Any Cost?

When I was an IBO in WWDB, the speakers told all kinds of lies. That WWDB was a non profit organization. That the diamonds did not profit from the sale of support materials. That WWDB helps save marriages. That diamonds pay cash for everything.

I remember a function where Greg Duncan said people who made loans were stupid. Hmm, I wonder how Mr Duncan had some homes foreclosed if he paid cash for them? Some IBO's even denied that Mr Duncan filed for bankruptcy even when the State of Montana had public records of it.

Other teaching from WWDB was how your family could skip meals to buy standing orders or skip your mortgage payment as banks won't foreclose right away. That would allow you to attend the major functions. Can you imagine the nerve of these folks to give this advice? Clearly the WWDB leaders wanted to extract as much cash from their downline at all costs. I do not believe they gave a shit about their downline.

While some of this may have reformed over the years, I have been following the blog of a WWDB IBO who indicates to me that the teaching is still pretty much the same. I'm sure WWDB edits out some of the questionable stuff from their CDs to pass accreditation standards but the IBO's are basically being taught the same stuff now as when I was an IBO.

An IBO has been in disucssion with me and he has yet to deny any of what I have mentioned here. He only makes the same tired arguments that my experience is dated, even though the IBO's I get information from are current IBOs.

Beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing. These folks will say they are your friends and mentors but all they really want is your cash. If these leaders were so great and such good examples, why did a tenured leader like Wolgamott walk out on WWDB? Why do they sell their downline voicemail? Who the heck needs voicemail these days? If they had good information that downline could use to build their business, why not issue it on a youtube account and make it free? I think the answer is obvious.

50 comments:

  1. I am a current IBO and newer at that with WWDB. I don't know who your upline was but they were obviously not teaching the correct way to build your business. Anytime you are ready to learn how to really build this business you come and see us in South Florida (Fort Lauderdale) to be exact. My upline has done nothing but give me the support my wife and I need and has no interest in my money nor keeping me in the business if it is not right for me because it would only be hurting him. I have had some struggles with my Ditto and stuff but have never been put down or forced to make a specific goal. Leaders, however, will always find a way to make it work. It all boils down to having a business mindset which I do since I have owned 2 restaurants and all I did was buy myself a job rather than an independent lifestyle. This business teaches people how to control time and money which any one who knows that is hard to do even owning your own business. Basically you just had some people not teaching you the proper way to run a business. We are about relationships and becoming lifelong friends with a business on the side.

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  2. Hi Justin, my upline is likely your upline. Puryear, Duncan, Wolgamott, Harimoto.

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    1. We share up line, and it comes down to the math, which cannot lie, and a persons own decision. Instead of projecting your experience as a unanimous cover all, why don't you tell people why you were not profitable and exactly what you were taught. Any intelligent person can run the numbers for a 4000 pin eagle and find that if you had met the customer volume rule, you should be making no less than a grand a month. Unless of course you are being dishonest about something... and if you were reinvesting that into your business you should have seen more growth come out of it. I'm willing to bet you weren't playing by the rules %100 and now you don't want to be the bad guy. Just for the record I'm not even a 1000 pin and my business is profitable. Keep it up joecool, you are helping the serious few save time and money from investing into someone foolish enough to take anything you say as truth.

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  3. Apologies if this is a duplicate comment I can't comment using my word press account for some reason? anyhow just wanted to say I have enjoyed reading your blog and the discussion! I was there in the 90's very similar story 4000/eagle not making the cash and stick of staying up till all hours of the night in meetings...I wish people in mentor positions would learn when to stop talking! The one thing I wanted to add is all the self development books did pay off for me;) I am now a successful businesses woman because I applied the work ethic and skills in my real estate career...a happy ending to my Amway experience in a strange way! I was just googling around wondering what ever became of my old diamond as I drive by his property all the time. Stumbled on to your blog.

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  4. Than you for your comments. Drop by anytime!

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  5. Yes, Greg went bankrupt or close to it, its common knowledge, its on his triple diamond CD. He invested in other things, IE stocks, homes etc and get into trouble, Amway and WWDB got him on the right track. Brad Duncan is STRICTLY against anything except Amway and what Greg went thru shows it.

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    1. Not close to it. He was chapter 7. He was probably greedy. I guess he doesn't know as much about money as he claims to know.

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    2. So what? You've never made a mistake? Wow, you are truly the best man on the planet. Sure you aren't God?

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    3. I've made mistakes. But I'm not put on a pedestal as a financial guru like Greg Duncan. l also do not profit from down line professing to be a financial guru like Greg Duncan, Funny how a triple diamond with all that money ended up bankrupt.

      Maybe his downline should think twice before paying to see him speak on finances when he couldn't manage his own.

      None of my financial "mistakes" landed me in bankruptcy.

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    4. Exactly. I could and would not take financial advice from someone who cannot control their own finances. It doesn't matter if it was something on the side or not. Running a business, any business, should not end in bankruptcy. It just goes to show that Greg doesn't really know how to run a successful business. If he did, then he should have never filed bankruptcy at all. Amway business or not.

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    5. Greg Duncan had an income of $80K per month and winded up bankrupt. I wonder if he's even recovered yet? We know one thing for sure, he wasn't paying cash for everything as he claimed on stage. Some IBOs even tried to deny that Greg was in bankruptcy. Imagine that.

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  6. Brad also filed chapter 7 in 2003 take a look into the washington court records on PACER. Also the ugliness of Dean Kosage and the court records and financial records that you can find on him is somewhat disturbing.

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  7. Brad Duncan also filed chapter 7 in 2003 take a look into the washington court records on PACER. Also the ugliness of Dean Kosage and the court records and financial records that you can find on him is somewhat disturbing.

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  8. Really? I'll have to go check that out. I wonder if any other "wealthy" diamonds filed for bankruptcy while telling people lies about how wealthy they are?

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  9. I find it interesting that WWDB is trying hard to hide the facts about their members and author. In fact Robert Kiyosaki never had a "Rich Dad" influence and that was an embellishment. Robert Kiyosaki had two failed businesses before he found Amway/WWDB and started writing success books... so the key to real success is to lie about success and write and make audio about it.

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    1. Thanks for your comments. Kiyosaki has never demonstrated that he made any money from using his own principles. I believe his money was made by selling books and useless ideas about how to make money.

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  10. I just looked at Amway.com What kind of mental case pays $12 for a toothbrush? They are 99 cents at the drugstore. Clearly Amway is for pathetic losers.

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    1. They also have $50 cases of purified water and $80 bottles of multi vitamins (1 month supply)

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  11. Brad didn't leave, he was booted by Ron because he cheated on his wife. As for Dean Kosage, he left to start his own crappy system and partner with another low-life, untrustworthy internet marketer by the name of Jonathan Budd. They now sit around at Jonathans house playing circle jerk with one another.

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    1. Thanks for the comment. I heard that Wolgamott and Kosage had left to start their own systems. I wonder how Brad's wife is doing as a "single" diamond? I remember Brad talking about marriage and how Amway strengthens and saves marriages. What a hypocrite!

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  12. This whole company is a shame it ruins life's and relationships they take your money, they take your life and in the end they take your soul.

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  13. Brad and Julie are still married and are currently speaking for World Wide, as well as I'm going to Wolgamont Family re union in August... Where do you guys get your information?

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    1. Brad Wolgamott is gone with his new girlfriend. Where did you get your information?

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  14. https://youtu.be/6dbuzEB_LXA
    Here's Brad and Julie's lifestyle video for you.

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    1. Crass materialism, funded by millions of poor saps at the bottom. How are the poor saps each ever going to find their millions of other poor saps to fund their crass materialism?

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  15. Even if they wanted to stick with voicemail to avoid everyone in the world seeing it on youtube, they can do so by just pushing messages onto IBOs' voicemail systems on their existing phone accounts, rather than pushing this CommuniKate system and charging the price of a landline for it. If an IBO didn't have voicemail already, it's so much cheaper to add that feature than CommuniKate. I mean if you're in business, you need REAL voicemail anyway.

    And the uplines say they only give you advice that would benefit you, as what benefits you would benefit them. This can make it seem credible, since it isn't completely altruistic, but at the same time, it's also manipulative, since they would say this even if it doesn't benefit you, but only them. And what's wrong with being altruistic in the first place?

    I'm not in Amway or WWDB, but I know a couple of people who are. They almost sucked me into it, and looking back, I can see the tactics that they tried. I even almost thought it was different from the old Amway, but that was only because of an even more limited experience being introduced to Quixtar by another friend a number of years ago. From what I read here and in other blogs and then compared with Merchants of Deception, it doesn't seem like much has changed, no matter what they say. In fact, that is part of their scamming, saying that things have changed when it's all still the same.

    It's funny how they say that they want independent thinkers. What they want is the exact opposite but they try to make you think that you're one, that you're special if you join.

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    1. That's right. Who the heck needs voicemail these days with facebook, cell phones, email and other means of communications.

      WWDB is just a rip off.

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  16. Dear Joe,
    First, wow do you sound like a quitter; have you ever dedicated yourself to anything? Sorry that was an attack at you, I’m new to WWDB, and I enjoyed reading your quitting words and how you inspired more quitters to quit. I personally have researched WWDB before I came to the WWDB group because I seriously thought it was Amway and I’ve been approached 5x by Amway. Guess being a cage fighter gives me a great personality. I would also like to call you out on your line ups since I know the Duncan’s beside their children could never possible be your uplines. Brad is very selective on who he mentors and it is usually the non-quitters that he mentor, the diamonds and emeralds, My upline Fenton and Susie Eng are mentored directly by Brad and Julie. Before I was a Dream Builder, I was chasing the money; I sold drugs, damn right, just like the cartel blood that flows thru my veins. I was proud to be a drug dealer, finally I was a cool person, and then I woke up and realized ever one fronts that they have money but no one really knows how to get it. I held a regular job, sold drugs and trained every day to fight in a cage. Wow my life was in utter chaos, then my best friend asked me to meet her sponsor and mentor, Jerry Liu and Fenton Eng (emerald mentor) so with one foot out of the door and my right ass check of the chair ready to bolt, I sat down and meet them. First there was never any offer made in fact I had an application process to go thru and win my mentorship which I am so glad and happy I fought for it. I guess we all come from different paths and what im really trying to say is I would love to sit down and speak to you face to face and prove that your wrong about world wide dream builder, I haven’t paid out a single cent and I’ve so far been receiving the Kate messages for free and haven’t need to buy a single thing, yes I will because that apart of this program. Did you expect money to fall from the sky? If you would have listened to your mentor, you would have learned one of the key parts to this entire program. Without HARDWORK you get nothing. Hard work is the key that slipped past you obviously! I have permanently been changed by the world wide group and will defend WWDB with my dying breath that’s what it means to not quit and not give in. I would love you to meet ALL of Fentons teams, Las Vegas and Atlanta and Bellingham Washington. Everyone of them would look at you and shake their heads, you were in and I don’t understand how you could leave. Unless…wait for it….. you’re a quitter. Hmm I was tired of being a loser and a quitter to now I am a worldwide dream builder for life! Plus the Family Reunion blew my mind thank God I’m willing to sacrifice for my future, unlike some cooljoe who wrote this blog.
    With love because we all make mistakes,
    Bryant Magill find me on facebook I dare you!

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    1. Hi Bryant,
      Sounds like you're a newbie. The reason I quit is because of all the lies I discovered by WWDB leaders AND the fact that I did everything I was old and I was still not profitable at the 4000 PV level.

      Being new, you are receiving from training materials but they weren't free. Someone paid for them. Once you sponsor someone, you will become a leader and be expected to pay for those things for your downline.

      Just because you now joined WWDB doesn't mean a thing. You haven't made money yet. In a few months, you'll probably have quit like most people. Funny how not making money makes it easier to quit.

      Many IBOs have posted comments on this blog and not a single one of them has ever come back to show me that they have gone diamond or that they even made a small net profit. More than likely you won't be any different.

      Good luck though.

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    2. Keyboard Warrior, Steve Nakamura, you let my post go thru lol first if you actually worked a 4000pv and had your own down lines and made eagle you would have made money not alot but you would have. second ive never received any training material, in fact i meet with my mentor so much that he and are actaully good friends now, i owe him alot in my life. WWDB does have a cost at the start if you actaully did the program you would know that, i have 3 downlines so far and havent had to pay shit to have them, 3rd Quit! what a joke im not a loser and quitter like yourself! "No one said it be easy, but down the long run it will be worth it!" Brad Duncan. I refuse to quit, If i quit training just because i dont get any fight how will i ever fight in the ufc? your logic doesn't make sense, "I worked the program at a small level saw no results and decided to quit." I train every day to prove to my coach that i want to fight, just like i work my ass of for WWDB so i can build a better future. I am sorry for whoever boiled you the wrong way but its not brad Duncan's fault you quit on the people you sponsored your the loser who quit. and yes it is quitting on your dream because if you would have gotten your platinum leg you'd would be singing a different song. You say i don't want people to be discouraged but you tell lies like this wow! 4th and finally complete formula for luck
      Preparation(personal growth)
      Attitude(belief/mindset)
      Opportunity(when something good comes along grab it)
      Action(doing something about it)
      =
      Luck

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    3. I notice you could not refute the Greg Duncan bankruptcy information. He tried to flip houses but he quit and failed. So in a way, you are allowing a quitter and failure give you advice.

      Even if your current mentor is still feeing you tools and things, then most likely he is taking the losses and at some point, you'll have to be the leader and absorb these costs.

      In a few months, you'lll likely be out of the business and then you won't be responding to any of my questions of facebook anymore. I've seen it happen all too many times over the years. You think you'll be different but I doubt it.

      I never said Brad Duncan was at fault for anything. But I do know that he's lied and gave unethical advice to downline in the past.

      You can have all the preparation and attitude but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of IBOs make nothing or lose money. If you're not losing money now, you will once you start paying for your own tools. Frankly I'm not even sure I believe you make squat now. If you have your own voicemail you're probably losing money even if your "mentor" is paying for your cds.

      You can spin it and make your business look like it's doing well, but I know where you're at.

      I didn't quit Amway because I couldn't work the business. I quit because I did what I was told and still did not make a profit. INsanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. It was insanity to keep wasting time and money on Amway.

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    4. Bryant, I am hearing exactly what I was always told from my upline come out of your mouth. I have heard it over and over again. "Never quit!" ,"Don't give up", "Quitters are losers! You don't want to be a loser do you?" It comes out of every diamonds mouth. Why is that? It's because they know that if you quit and other follow, their income is lost. They can't sell uneeded tools to you anymore. They can't get bonuses anymore. They fall out of qualification. Of course they are going to tell the lies that quitting is for losers. But if something does not yeild a return, it's best to quit. I gurantee that in another month you will broke, burned out, and ready to quit. Sick of all the no's and getting no where. Then you will go to FED and be all fired up again. Then the cycle starts over. Like Joe Cool, I did exactly what they told me for years. Way too long! And I did not see the growth. But I kept going because they feed you with positive and tell you not to quit. Now, being positive and staying positive are for sure not a bad thing. But, if you are forced to listen to CD's, council with mentors and go to functions to stay positive and upbeat so that you won't quit, don't you think there is a problem there? Why stay in something that is doomed to fail and makes you HAVE to think positively about it so that you won't quit? Just some words of advice.

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    5. Bryant challenged me to visit his face book page to debate him and when I did that, he tells me that his upline told him not to associate with me. Absolutely hilarious.

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    6. Of course his upline told him that. It's negativity. Can't have that or the truth reaching Bryant's ears. Then he may quit!

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    7. I'm still folloing his progress and he hasn't quit yet. But then again, it's been less than a monh

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  17. Funny is that why Apple, Nike and Microsoft joined the Amway team the past year? Cuz they are a horrible scam? Lol the word of quitters make me laugh!

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    1. You know what's funny too? WorldCom and Enron, two big scams also joined with Amway until they got shut down. BTW, show me a link where Apple, Nike and Microsoft has "Joined with Amway". Of do you mean these companies have allowed Amway to sell their products?

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    2. I only see Microsoft on there. Not Apple, not Nike. Lol, the words of brainwashed Ambots make me laugh! And, the only reason that companies have partnered with Amway as a partner store is simple. There are thousands and thousands of IBO's constantly joining and quitting Amway. The new ones hear about the partner stores and how they will "save" money by shopping through Amway so they jump all over it. Free advertising for the partner store. They don't care where it is bought from, they just care that the product is purchased.

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  18. They are partners with Nike and Apple. If you weren't ignorant you'd be able to find that out in your research. Pretty sure those companies don't want to associate with scams. Also, they have professionals, sadly Joe, that's not you, look into companies and evaluate them before they make any decisions in partnering with them.

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    1. And if you were't ignorant, you'd know that Amway was partners with Enron and Worldcom (MCI), two of the biggest scams in US history. Did your Amway "professionals" evaluate them before partnering with them?

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  19. Hi there I am so glad to have come across this page. I reside in Edmonton Canada and I have known about pyramid schemes since 2002 when I was approached by a similar network marketing scheme. Gladly I have always ignored them but at a very tough time economically in the Alberta Oil sands having led to my partner and I being laid off. My partner has been approached by AMWAY recruiter, I use the word recruiter cse it's the perfect description the approach. I totally feel helpless because she is getting so drawn into what they are saying and preaching. I have always hated the idea of Pyramid schemes and I feel we may have to part ways cse I can see through what they are getting her into. Thanks for posts Joecool It's been helpful for me to see that someone out there can see what I am seeing.

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    1. I'm glad you found this blog helpful. Once someone gets hooked, it's pretty hard to convince them otherwise. The sad thing is your partner might see you as negative unless you support the Amway business.

      But watch your income versus expenses. The upline will encourage free spending on tools (which they profit from) and those tools are very unlikely to result in increased sales or business volume.

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  20. This is who JoeCool is. A Fraud.

    http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/who-is-amway-critic-joecool-and-does-he-owe-me-50000/

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    1. LOL, that article was written by David Steadson, a well known liar and Amway zealot. An Amway corporate employee referred to him as a cyber bully and he has no credibility. You have to do better than that.

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    2. By the way, anonymous at 9:18 AM, how's the weather in Sparks Nevada?

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  21. Joecool, can you explain to me what WWDB and Amway is all about, how the two correalate, and what is core (principles?) I am still confused.

    From what these people tell me is that they work for WWDB and they teach and mentor people who Want to build a successful bigger business. Its not about selling, its about teaching you the core principles of how to run your business on your own. We are bringing you through the educational process (8 weeks). They teach you how to change your mindset.

    Some people want to be distributors, some sign up for some reason, and there are those who want to work at the bigger business level.

    Just know we are not signing you up for failure. We are going to make sure your business is successful.In 2-5years you can be financially independent.


    According to them wwdb teaches them how to move products or how you can use them. Bc every business needs a product. You can't have a business with no product, you'll go bankrupt. That is why they use Amway. They dont work for amway and amway doesnt evenn know what they do (seriously?). They go on to say...

    "Your a business owner, why wouldnt you want to buy products from yourself? I dont't even know all the products,i just gotta move it, how I make use of it."

    They broke out a plan:
    Weekly habit- read lots of books and listen to cds
    Monthly- attend meetings
    Yearly- travel to events.

    I'll update you on the prices when signing up.

    I dont want to sign up, I am curious as to why they cant tell me much until the next meet and so forth. I think they are from the tsuruda line?

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  22. I'll be glad to help. When you sign up as an Amway IBO, you become an Amway distributor. WWDB (Worldwide Dream Builders) is a for profit company owned and operated by high ranking Amway IBOs.

    They are a separate limited liability corporation.

    They exit to make money by selling Amway training to Amway IBOs. They make money no matter how much money you make or lose. If you agree to purchase tools from them, you are most likely to lose money, as most other Amway IBOs do.

    Their training consists of books, cds, a voicemail system and seminars or functions. If you go "all in", you'll likely spend several hundreds of dollars a month for the WWDB products/training. There is no assurance that you will profit from their help. In fact, the vast majority of people who purchase their tools end up losing money, although they may deny it.

    As an IBO, I was fairly high ranking at 4000 PV. Any profit I made ended up going to WWDB so my net profit was zero. People below my level would have been losing money because their PV bonus would have been less than mine.

    The WWDB company is very profitable for the high ranked diamonds because the profit margins are higher for WWDB material than for Amway products and there are very few people who are getting paid by WWDB.

    Look at the activities: Listen to a cd, read a book, attend a function. They all cost you money but they don't make you any money. Non income producing activities are not good for business.

    A carpenter can't build without tools, yes. But a carpenter doesn't need 15 hammers, 5 ladders and 8 saws either. And the carpenter's tools make him money. The WWDB tools cost you money but don't make you any money.

    Please digest this and ask more questions. My contact info is on my profile if you wish to email me.

    Good luck!


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  23. Hello Joecool.

    I'm in Colorado and recently met Howie Danzik. I have been strongly considering joining wwdb under one of his legs here. I know what Amway is and I know what my odds are. I'm more interested in the IBOs who beat the odds and became Diamonds and still discourage other's who want to start this journey. I have read a fair amount of your posts and would love to know if you could carry on an exchange or know someone who fits my description that would be willing to talk? The button to email you on you profile doesn't seem to work for me.

    I haven't completed the (BS) vetting process so will have lost nothing if I turn back now. I simply don't want to turn away from this and regret it later. I'd rather do my due diligence now. Thank you.

    -Calen

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    1. Hi Calen! You can email me at hawaiianibo1@yahoo.com

      Ask Howie why he claims to have built his diamondship as a single when Joecool was at his Howie and Susan Danzik rally in person.

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  24. My wife Brittney (not real name) and I just joined about a couple months ago and we are starting to have second thoughts. our Ditto is about $700 and we've already lost money. We rarely spend time with eachother now and our dog is starting to lose all training due to going out and trying to "help people". so my question is how the h*ll do we quit without hurting our "mentors" feelings or leaving on a bad note?

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